Is God a Torturer?

You would think that the son of God would
have his Father's temper, but........not so much.

Do atheists realize the fact that we Christians will go to heaven while non-Christians and atheists will going to hell where God will torture you for eternity and we will mock you all day long?

This bait question was recently posted on Quora. It was posted I suspect in order to generate a debate between atheists and Christians, in part to reveal Christian hypocrisy. I don't think the doofus who posted it is, in fact, a Christian or has ever met Christ in his spiritual life. The premise behind the question is a false premise - an argument based on a fallacy. The false premise here is that the human soul is and always will be immortal without any interference from God to keep our souls going.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 says, "The living know that they shall die but the dead know nothing neither have they a part in anything done under the sun." The righteous dead, we are told in Scripture, will be raised from sleep at the second coming. Jesus describes death as sleep. He says (Matthew 10:28) "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Apparently the soul does not survive hell according to Jesus.

The wicked dead, on the other hand, will be raised at the second resurrection to face judgment and will then die again one last time. There is no eternal ever-burning hell. It isn't in Scripture. It’s a doctrine borrowed by the Roman church from Greek and Roman mythology to frighten people into obedience. 

God is love and merciful. The idea that He, who died a horrific death that all of us who believe in Him might not perish but have eternal life, will “torture and mock” people for eternity is a damnable though quite effective lie designed by Satan and borrowed from paganism by the Roman church that actually drives people away from God by making Him look more evil than Hitler. 

Man’s soul is not immortal. Only God grants eternal life (see John 3:16). Nowhere does the Bible say God grants eternal life to the lost. The only place where anyone says “Thou shalt not surely die” is in the Garden of Eden and it’s the first lie told to Eve by a snake. 

Sadly, the “You’ll be tormented in hell” malarkey is just too good a story that pastors cling to in order to scare people into the pews and loosen their purse strings. Turns out that idea keeps more people out of the church than it keeps in. It’s a lie about God’s character and a violation of the 3rd commandment, even more so than using swear words like GD. It’s claiming to speak for and about God without his direction. It defames God’s character and THAT is the bit God won’t hold you blameless for as it drives away people from Him. 

Every time God gets mad at an individual or a group, it’s because they are harming the innocent. He got mad at Israel because they were sacrificing 26,000 babies a year to the god Moloch. If I were God, I’d get mad at that too, but even I wouldn’t chicken fry someone forever and not allow him to die.  And I certainly wouldn't mock him. That’s just horrible and nothing like the God of love and mercy that I know.

Jonathan Edwards lied, whether he believed what he was saying or not. The not-so-Reverend Edwards upset a lot of good Christian people with his horrific sermon, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God." It upset me centuries later when I had to read that monstrous thing for literature class in high school. Edwards took massive liberties with the Scripture in that sermon. It drove thousands of the timid into the pews and loosened their purse strings as it was intended to do. You have to wonder how many good-hearted people fled westward, appalled that New England's god was a monster.

Here is the absolutely terrifying picture of God that Edwards paints. 

"The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment"

 No!

• 1 John 1:5 - This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
• 2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
• John 17:3 - “And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”
• Romans 5:8 - But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

God doesn't give Himself a pass on the eternal hatred and vengeance option. How can we say God is good all the time, and tell people he sets fire to immortal people and enjoys the ensuing fiery sports - people flopping around and screaming.

I don't think so!

© 2023 by Tom King

If God Created Us, Then Who Created God?

A friend described that question as a problem in circular logic?

If one thinks of God as a creature who exists in our three dimensional world delimited by the boundaries of time, then there is a circular logic problem as he says.  If something must be created, then there must be a creator, but then if the creator exists, mustn't He also have a creator and so on and so on?

If, however, you believe, as I do, that God exists in a dimension that is outside of time, then the question as to who created God is meaningless. This problem arises because we are three dimensional creatures.  We experience life as a moving event, traveling along a stretch of time, experiencing one moment after another in linear fashion. We can neither go backward nor leap forward.  We assume, therefore, that everything in the universe experiences things in the same manner.

I don't believe that is true.  I believe, with some support from physics, that there are other dimensions beyond three dimensional space-time.  I believe that God exists in this higher dimension or "spiritual plane" as Scripture indicates.  I believe God occupies today, tomorrow and yesterday all at once.  That's kind of mind-boggling, but not necessarily impossible to get your head around.

I don't mean that God moves back and forth in time as Scripture seems to hint that angels do. I mean, rather, that God is always there a thousand years ago, today, tomorrow - all at the same "time" for want of a better word for an idea that transcends time itself.  So a "beginning" for God is a meaningless concept.   He is as Revelation says, the alpha and the Omega - the beginning and end all at once.  We have a hard time comprehending how that can be so. 

Physicists believe that there may be multiple dimensions beyond our own which encompass ours, but which we cannot touch nor comprehend in the same way that a two dimensional being who lived on a flat piece of paper could not comprehend the idea of depth, his body limited only to having length and width without any idea of "thickness".  He could not see us except where we placed our hands against the flat world and then he would only see the place where we touched his world and not us as we truly are.


In the same way we cannot truly see God.  When Moses asked to see God, God could only show him his "back parts".  For us to see God in any meaningful way, he had to create an image of Himself that was limited to our 3 dimensional world - in other words he had to create Christ who was in that sense God's son and yet Himself.

The idea that a powerful creative intelligence might exist in some higher dimension is not beyond the realms of science at all.  If anything at all, it should not be at all surprising that such a dimension might organize itself into a vast "intelligence" given it had infinite space and time to work with.  Why should we be surprised that there is someone there?

It may be that at some higher dimension than ours, only one creature may inhabit that dimension. Of course He would be exactly like God and I believe that He is God. No beginning, no end, the self existent one.  In the Old Testament he even calls Himself "I Am".   In that higher dimension, our time and space, the entire history of our world would seem like a rope to be twisted and created in one act - the beginning and end created at the same time.  It is we, the created who live out our lives along the strands one day after another.  For an intelligence to exist in a higher plane of existence, He would simply be there or not - either through the whole of time at once or not at all.

Based on the things I have seen and experienced, I think it's a very good bet that God is there.  I think He made this world like a cook makes a stew, placing all the ingredients here to insure that what comes out at the end of the process is the greatest good for all creation - a people who can be trusted with the keeping of the universe.

Tom King (c) 2013